I like the idea of combining the two into a master carpenter and using stains. Like you stated woodsman is very basic, just chopping wood to make into planks. Being able to craft the wood into a finished product is very exciting.
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We might actually make current woodsmen into Rangers combined with the Fighter/Hunter profession. They will get CXP for chopping down trees possibly.
But the making of planks from logs will move to the carpenter role.
What do you think of that?
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Make sense to move planks to carpenter and let woodsman merge with other profession.
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I think merging carpenter and woodsman would be a huge mistake unless you rethink the energy costs for wood harvest. Woodsman is really very time and energy-intensive, and for that reason, if for no other, merging the woodsman and carpenter would overwhelm the carpenter. Add stains and different tree types, if you must fluff out the woodsman but don’t stick the carpenter with ALL of that.
The idea of adding woodcutting to Ranger…just no. Again, there’s too much time and energy involved just in the tree harvest. Not to mention it’s kind of a muddling of the “traditional” idea of what a Ranger is. Cutting down trees just doesn’t fit that picture.
Since there’s already a discussion of furniture, you’re going to require more wood, more wood processing, different types of wood, different colors of wood going forward. I think BOTH the woodsman and the carpenter are going to be very busy without changes other than recipes.
Finally, from a RL perspective, it’s two extremely different skill sets. Most carpenters wouldn’t know much about lumber milling, and most lumberjacks aren’t going to know the first thing about carpentry, especially fine work.
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Thanks for that input.
We will go to the drawing board. I’ll think on it some more and how we can keep the woodsman but at the same time make it more interesting with more wood types and so on.
We already have tree 1 which just gives regular wood in carpentry. So we either keep regular wood and add other variants such as pine and oak for furniture making or we just add tree variants but leave the wood called just wood… and have stains to determine what type it’d be in the carpentry recipes…?
So much of that is going to depend on how much you’re killing your graphic artist (or your wallet buying trees and other objects), and how much the coding is going to have to change. I would make 3 levels of wood: Pine, Oak, and Mahogany (or other rare wood of your choice, maybe Burl). That gives you 3 market values for the raw wood and cut lumber. I would leave it at that. You don’t need 50 kinds of trees.
Someone is going to have to build the furniture (maybe the Craftsman I suggested?) so leave the stain/paint/dye to that role, maybe.
I am looking at the overall real-life time involved when I’m looking at ways to suggest balance. When the carpenter is busy, it’s hours at a time, and then nothing. That could just be poor planning in our community, but it’s a process. The same is sort of true with the woodsman, but the problem there is the logical (it takes a lot of energy to fell a tree by hand!) versus the RL time factor (OMG do I really have to sit here 20 minutes doing nothing, now that I’ve cut 4 trees?). Oh, and the minimum energy on the lumber mill station seems off. It only lets you do a few (6, I think it was?) at a time, even if you have full energy.
Furniture will remain with a carpenter. That’s exactly what a carpenter does and will give them some better recipes to use.
The energy consumption for trees will need to be looked at for sure. Considering that if wood demand goes up due to people wanting furniture that they can put inside their homes would mean tremendous use of energy.
But then, we have lots of energy foods now thanks to the cooking changes. And the cost of logs due to the cost to keep energised goes up. Which in turn adds more value to the carpenters finished product.
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Um. I can’t agree with you there, Tem. Remember, a field earns 65 CXP from start to finish. 65. That is just enough to buy seed to do the next field. And that is a once-a-week payout. No, it’s not enough unless you have an entire sim devoted to fields, and absolutely nothing to do in real life. The once-a-week harvest makes CXP from milling pretty crappy too, especially with fields currently yielding less than 50% return on seeds. I think the rational sweet spot there is for the average yield to range from 40% to 70%, with an occasional potential for very high or very low yields. It’s just not logical to run a farm at a loss.
Yes, baskets can earn massive CXP, but they’re also pretty critical to the whole system now. They could be moved to a different role once farming is more balanced.
Good point on the high-energy foods. As those increase in availability, the actual time investment in that process will improve.
Oh don’t worry. If we are going to take cxp from farmers by moving baskets and pottery etc to another role we would have to increase cxp from fields to the farmer and balance out seed generation to allow for fields to work at a profit and not a loss.
Perhaps the slaughter of animals could go to a farmer as well?
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Now, the slaughter of farm animals as a farmer-only activity has potential and would solve a couple of things I see as problems. It would generate additional CXP for farmers, and it would close down some of the potential product theft. I don’t care if other folks come and milk my cows. The milk regenerates at a reasonable rate. Not so much when someone kills them. It also makes a lot of real-world sense from history (not true today, obviously) that the farmer would harvest the livestock.
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As for other’s slaughtering your animals. We have monsters upstairs in the store you can set to group only. So you could setup kind guard dogs that will attack anyone but your own group members around your farm stock if you wanted.
But yes I think if we increase cxp from field work or increase seed return, and give cxp to farmers when slaughtering their own animals, we may find a suitable balance where giving the mundane pottery, basketweaving style jobs to an even lower class such as a peasant, it would work itself out.
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Might want to think of a different name for that class. If you look at most medieval hierarchies in history, fiction, and fantasy, the peasant class included pretty much all the professions currently in the game. 
That word also has a negative connotation in most modern minds. I suggested craftsman, since that does cover what they would do, but I can also see how that would imply a higher social class than what you’re wanting it to be. I don’t have a suggestion–at the moment. It will come to me at 3 AM probably.
On the monsters in the store: They’re fun, they might work to a degree, but they’re easy to hang up. Dorian and Vu apparently got a bear stuck against the fruit tree demo. And again, there’s sending in the tank to distract the guard bear while the tank’s partner goes in to slaughter the herd.
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good morning all. first of all you should consider if it makes sense in the long run to have so many classes. my opinion is, farmer should be kept as he is, he does what he is supposed to. woodsman and smelter both make no sense to me, because they have too little to do, the little work can easily do the carpenter or blacksmith. carpenters do everything that has to do with wood, starting with felling trees, cutting the wood and then making tools or inventory from wood. the same applies to the blacksmith, he does everything that has to do with iron or ores, melts them into ingots and then processes them further. it would be conceivable to specialize in weaponsmithing as an option. brewer, for example, is a good profession that can be expanded in the long term, for example to make different wines or liqueurs. i hope i was able to help.
suggestion: you should advise new players in the tutorial to start as a farmer as long as we are in beta or alpha otherwise some easily lose the desire 
I disagree, for the simple fact that woodsman and smith are both high energy use roles.
The woodsman doesn’t have that many recipes, but the work takes a lot of energy and time. The carpenter (right now) has a lot of recipes that don’t take a lot of energy. The carpenter is the lighter load one of the related roles, at least until the furniture is released, but between the two, there is still too much for one role.
The smelter doesn’t really take that much energy or have that many recipes, but it is time-consuming. The smith does have a lot of recipes, and they do take a lot of energy. As with the woodsman and carpenter, combining these two roles will be overwhelming, especially once weapons get going, and mining, smelting, and forging become nearly as busy as farming.
IMO, combining the two sets of roles into two roles would throw them all off balance.
Carpenter will also have modular furniture. A lot like the smith has weapon making.
Once these pick up those classes will be very busy.
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My opinion is. That although some classes are very basic and limited, they are the type of classes specific types of players also like to play.
Some people do not like complex roles in a village and do not have much time to play. These roles suit the simplistic player who wants to get involved but cannot commit much more to your community.
This is why they were created and kept that way to be simple yet required as a role to make a village work.
- they are also simple enough positions to fill with alts should you not find players to fill those simpler rules.
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#temujin
first of all the game should be playable even if not a number of players on a sim stay and each plays a certain class. if I’m carpenter then I’m dependent on wood, but I can not make! ok I can saw logs, that’s it. what do i do now, do i buy the planks? or do i make myself an alt? not to be angry but i have 0 bock to create a new account for every small class to be able to play the game sensibly 
think about it well if you want to keep the small classes or integrate them better.
#lillith
it’s not about making the carpenter too complex but about the fact that the game has to be playable with a maximum of 2 accounts. you don’t have a disadvantage if you integrate the woodsman into the carpenter, you can do XCP that way too. but the player has to have the possibility to produce things he needs himself and not have to buy a lot of them.
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I think the idea is to encourage community cooperation and to NEED other people for economies.
If the game is able to be played entirely solo it kind of defeats the purpose.
If one person can do everything there is no need to develop a community.
They don’t have to be in your community specifically. Make trade deals/contracts with other players outside of your sim in order to secure what you need.
Currently, I’m a brewer so I can’t craft a lot of the basic things I need especially tools.
I’m trying to train some new players now to encourage them to jump on board.
Creating those types of relationships is what gives this game its unique vision.
This is just my opinion.
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